Ram Dass interviewed on the BBC in 1981. Ram Dass tells his story. Ram Dass is spiritual not religious. The entire universe is lawful in its unfolding. It’s not by chance that each event occurs. It is a set of lawful interactions. It is best to listen for your part in the play, not the chooser. We have taken a human birth to have a series of experiences which are vehicles for our awakening out of the illusion that we are exclusively separate. The journey of awakening goes from seeing yourself as separate to seeing that this “you” is only relatively real. You are separate on one plane, but going up one level, you see that we are not separate.